--
-monde

[reply] [top]

[»] i have noticed
by joe burns - Nov 21st 2001 11:54:32

i have been sitting here reading all these comments.. and have to now put my 2 cents worth in..(late as it may be)..i see people talking about porn webhiting.. i have actually been webhited by more so called "normal" websites then porn ones.."buy this camera..declear bankruptsy here.. come here to gamble"..i can actually turn on my computer and not do anything and these sites will still popup trying to get me to go there true some porn sites do webhit..but for that to happen you have to first go there...I seen alot of talk about porn sites and rape..and women.. check your police files...men can also be rapped..and on the same coin..does the mean if i watch bugs bunny drop a anvil on elmers head.. that is going to make me want to go out and do that...i think not..i read how porn sites degrade women..no one FORCED these women to pose for these sites..(and bet they got paid well for doing it to)..alittle something god built into us call... "free will of choice"..i also read how it is not moral..and bad for kids and families.. well another point for free will of choice.. there are enough programs out there now that partents can put on their systems to keep their kids out of these sites..and alittle parenting would not hurt either...i have 3 kids and do monitor what and where they go on the computer..

[reply] [top]

[»] The problem isn't the coders....
by iggly_iguana - Mar 21st 2001 21:29:05

While running my consulting company, we were
approached by a porn site to do the same type of
work you described. The coders were looking
forward to working on the project. The problem was
caused by our other clients. Some of our "other"
clients are in their 40's and 50's. They grew up
with specific views and would have been more than
willing to change to another consulting company if
we had taken a contract with a porn site,
even though we provided the best service available
(Well, I think so!). Many programmers are also
worried about trouble with law-enforcement.

Personally, I would be glad to trade code snippets
with porn programmers, or any programmers! Hell,
invite me to one of the conventions, I'd talk to
Jenna given a chance.

So, I don't believe that the bulk of coders care
about what you program. Hell, we've come to expect
most "stupid patents" to be broken by porn
programmers. Although some are worried about the
loss of their livlihood. Time will change this
situation for most of us...

Code on, and feel free to show me what you figure
out!!

[reply] [top]

[»] Sick sons of bitches
by Ilan Volow - Mar 12th 2001 18:47:37

Making a quick buck by writing code that denigrates both men and women. Society can't tolerate people who use their computer talents so others can watch helpless, innocent people getting fucked for money. If I ever met one of the assholes on the street, I kick his ass the first chance I'd get--those damn programmers at Microsoft!

--
Long live Clarux the penguincow

[reply] [top]

[»] Nudity & Coders
by Kamal - Mar 13th 2001 17:16:18

I for one am with you on this one!! I used to work in the "adult entertainment" industry, as it is now called, as a backend database developer. Originaly with the old 976, 900, 800 adult lines, shortly the owner bought into the online business and I migrated to that project. Spent a good 7 years of my life there not only as one of the programmers but also as the network engineer. Pay was good but whenever I told people what the company I worked for did, it was always the same response a cold shoulder. To get out of that industry as it was killing my nearly non-existent social life, I ended up taking on a sys admin. Serious pay cut but it payed the bills. I have now been out of that industry for over 4 years and even now I feel the cold shoulder whenever I mention that I *used* to work in that field. So to all of you who say that it's just that people object to what your company does - BULL!! If that was true why hold what I did in my younger days to gain some experience and pay my bills against me now? Do I still work in that industry? NO! Would I ever go back? Who knows, but that's not the issue! Enjoy life for in the end it'll be gone all in the blink of an eye!

[reply] [top]

---

[»] Re: Nudity & Coders
by DynaMite - Mar 16th 2001 10:24:17


> I for one am with you on this one!! I
> used to work in the "adult
> entertainment" industry, as it is now
> called, as a backend database developer.
> Originaly with the old 976, 900, 800
> adult lines, shortly the owner bought
> into the online business and I migrated
> to that project. Spent a good 7 years
> of my life there not only as one of the
> programmers but also as the network
> engineer. Pay was good but whenever I
> told people what the company I worked
> for did, it was always the same response
> a cold shoulder. To get out of that
> industry as it was killing my nearly
> non-existent social life, I ended up
> taking on a sys admin. Serious pay cut
> but it payed the bills. I have now been
> out of that industry for over 4 years
> and even now I feel the cold shoulder
> whenever I mention that I *used* to work
> in that field.
>
> So to all of you who say that it's
> just that people object to what your
> company does - BULL!! If that was true
> why hold what I did in my younger days
> to gain some experience and pay my bills
> against me now? Do I still work in that
> industry? NO! Would I ever go back?
> Who knows, but that's not the issue!
>
> Enjoy life for in the end it'll be
> gone all in the blink of an eye!

Hi all,

First of all I haven't read all of the comments
just yet but I don't understand why so many people
are having so many problems with the adult
industry. I have worked as a developer for the
Private Media Group (NASDAQ PRVT) and for IMC
which is a holding of clubseventeen.com amongst a
lot of others. I am already working for 7 years in
this industry. Currently I am CTO and co-owner of
a big european hosting ISP.

I am living in the Netherlands better known as
porn paradise due to our liberal laws.
I only notice the benefits of working in the adult
industry. Everybody wants to hear the
stories and inmediately gets interested when they
find out. So for me it's very hard to understand
why so many other people are so uptight about it.

Our non adult customers see our adult customers as
a benefit. They understand that adult
entertainment is far ahead when it comes to
subjects as technology and actually making
money on the internet. Why don't see more people
it like this. It's a fact that no other industry
has such amounts of traffic as adult sites do.
Also adult sites actually make money
on the net and I'm talking a lot of money.

According to my opinion every other type of
company can learn a hell of a lot from the
adult industry. Here in Europe they understand. We
have many non adult customers who ask us to
provide information about adult companies. They do
see the benefit of it. They know that it takes
hard work, and a lot of effort to run adult sites
and to keep them running.

To me adult is just the same as any other. There
is a demand for it and there are companies who
provide it. Isn't that just all what economy is
about? I can recomment
to everybody if you as a sysadmin/developer or
whatever ever get the chance to work
for an adult company you should do it right away.
It's a playground for techies and there
are so many things to be learned which you can't
learn and experience anywhere else.

Besided that they are fun people to work with, the
are serious and hey every honest man will be
jealous that you get paid for a job and be able to
watch hot naked women!

Yes I work in the adult industry and everybody who
does lift your heap up high and be
damned proud of it! We're blessed and shouldn't be
a shamed of it!

-=[DynaMite]=-

--
-=[DynaMite]=- AdultMonkey dot Com! Everyday I wake up I check the Forbes list of richest people in the world... when I don't find myself listed.... I go to work!

[reply] [top]

---

[»] programming for porn
by Paul J. Pinkstaff - Mar 12th 2001 13:24:51

I certainly have nothing against people who
program for the porn business. I do like to make
use of the fee sites.

Working in the porn business can't be any worse
than working in regular business.

I would like to know more about contract
programming in the porn business.

pinkstaffp@acm.org

[reply] [top]

[»] so you code porn....
by PigyPigy - Mar 12th 2001 09:43:36

I own a pawnshop and have an FFL (Federal Firearms
License), which are also great conversation
stoppers at parties. I used to run a multiline
BBS that was free, except for a small area of soft
pr0n that paid for the free access for everyone
else. We all have our rows to hoe.

I have found the best way to deal with idiots who
discriminate against those of use whose businesses
are on the "fringe" is to be self employeed and
become more sucessful than they are. I don't know
that it changes their mind, but funny, it doesn't
seem to bother me anymore :-)

Oh yea. I need someone to write a script for an
online credit application on our ssl server.
Since it is only one single server with minimal
resources (dual ppro200) I would be happy to have
someone that understands how to squeeze the shit
out of code write it.

[reply] [top]

[»] Those were the days
by Julie - Mar 12th 2001 00:17:36

I can remember when real men (and women) wrote their HTML with the VI editor. Porn sites were the ones paying money and I needed money for college. In those days all you needed was a Sun Ultra at the end of a leased line and you were a Webmaster. Ahhh yessss.

And then there were the dot coms. Work 24/7 and never look back. The whole world was a blurr.

Now web sites are big hairy beasts with racks full of routers and server farms. All you ever see is a small piece of the action. You can work your heart out and your code hardly matters. Sigh.

Oh for the good old days.

Julie

[reply] [top]

[»] Re: Those were the days
by Eric Blade - Mar 12th 2001 18:42:03


> I can remember when real men (and women)
> wrote their HTML with the VI editor.
I write all my code in "vi" and "notepad" :-P

Hey, I found a bug. Freshmeat double-spaces any quotes after the first.


> Porn sites were the ones paying money

> and I needed money for college. In

> those days all you needed was a Sun

> Ultra at the end of a leased line and

> you were a Webmaster. Ahhh yessss.

I think I'm doing well with a 486sx/25 at the end of a cable modem. Sometimes it's slow, especially if the roommate is playing Diablo, but it works pretty nicely over all. Of course, my maximum hits in one day is about 2,000... but still. not too bad for a personal home page. I am working on something that I do hope to make a commercial venture, though, and I think it'll take quite the abuse, considering I have timed the 486 at being able to eek out 1,000 hits an hour :-)


> Now web sites are big hairy beasts

> with racks full of routers and server

> farms. All you ever see is a small

> piece of the action. You can work your

> heart out and your code hardly matters.

> Sigh.

This is why you do your own. Why work for someone else, until you've built something that someone else decides that they want to pay you for? Then you work on YOUR terms, not on theirs. I've just started (Feb 2) web stuff, and wouldn't mind doing it full time anyway. :)


> Oh for the good old days.

While it seems we always say that, -NOW- is someone's "good old days".

- Eric

--
-- http://cakepoker.com/?t=3491&Lang=en

[reply] [top]

---

[»] The hypocracy is almost blinding.
by NobodyMan - Mar 10th 2001 13:04:41

Hmm... so the message your spouting is that people
should be more "Open Minded" and not pay any
regard to a coder's employer? Fair enough. I wonder,
though, what would be your reaction be to someone
who told you that they wrote CGI scripts for the Ku Klux
Klan? What if someone told you "I write PHP pages for
Neo-Nazis and I'm proud of it!" I doubt you'd swap
coding secrets.

Are those examples too outlandish? Fair enough. Try
this: how many people proudly admit to writing code
for the RIAA homepage? How well received would a
coder be among his peers if he admitted to working on
Carnivore.? How about really tight, efficient code that
collects your surfing habits (and contact info) and
routes it to telemarketing firms?

The reason why you get shunned is because people
feel that you are aiding an industry that they object to.
That is their right, and it is preposterous for you to
suggest that people divorce their thoughts about
pornography (for or against) from the people who
implement it.

In short: Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall
out.

[reply] [top]

[»] Re: The hypocracy is almost blinding.
by Chuck - Mar 11th 2001 10:42:20


>
> Hmm... so the message your spouting
> is that people
> should be more "Open
> Minded" and not pay any
> regard to a coder's employer? Fair
> enough. I wonder,
> though, what would be your reaction
> be to someone
> who told you that they wrote CGI
> scripts for the Ku Klux
> Klan? What if someone told you
> "I write PHP pages for
> Neo-Nazis and I'm proud of it!"
> I doubt you'd swap
> coding secrets.
>
> Are those examples too outlandish?
> Fair enough. Try
> this: how many people proudly admit
> to writing code
> for the RIAA homepage? How well
> received would a
> coder be among his peers if he
> admitted to working on
> Carnivore.? How about really tight,
> efficient code that
> collects your surfing habits (and
> contact info) and
> routes it to telemarketing firms?
>
> The reason why you get shunned is
> because people
> feel that you are aiding an industry
> that they object to.
> That is their right, and it is
> preposterous for you to
> suggest that people divorce their
> thoughts about
> pornography (for or against) from the
> people who
> implement it.
>
> In short: Don't be so open-minded that
> your brains fall
> out.
>
>
Two very interesting points: freedom of expression and
freedom from responsibility.
<BR>
I am an American and proud of what my country has
contributed to the human community. I am also
embarassed by how we mangle those contributions at
times.
<BR>
For those that rant that porn degrades women, men,
both, I just don't buy it. I really love the "it contributes
to rape or the atmosphere of it." Sorry, we just keep
forgetting about that little concept of responsibility
don't we. People who rape are responsible for it.
People who think little of women are responsible for it.
People who abuse themselves and sex are responsible
for it. It's time to stop blamming everyone and
everything else when we have a problem and look in
the mirror at the cause. Only when you know the cause
can we start on a solution.
<BR>
Let's face it folks, the attitudes of most people today
can be summed up real easy - "I support everyones
right to x, just as long as x doesn't inconvenience me,
interfere with what I want or take any effort on my
part. - Oh and it helps if you look, act, talk and hell just
plain think like me."
<BR>
Thinking - that's the real key here - Who will tell us all
how to think - who programs that attitude -TV, Web,
Radio, office water cooler, kid's school, sports, religion -
in other words those thousands of little interactions
that go on without the average person realizing it.
<BR>
Think of how much time and resource (money) is spent
to get the right spin on anything (who to vote for, what
to eat, drive, wear, brush your teeth with, hell even
wipe with)
<BR>
Do we really need to be told all that or do we allow
that to be done to us by our own inaction?<BR>
<B>It's time for humanity to start acting like intelligent
creatures</B>It's time for everyone to worry about his
or her own wagon and no one elses. It's time for
people to learn the attitudes of tolerance to other
people's looks, acts and thoughts even if different from
their own and teach it to the kids they inflict on this
world. And if they don't, its time for them and them
alone to be responsible for it. And it's time for everyone
and everything (government) who has tried to usurpe
that responsibility to get the hell out.

[reply] [top]

---

[»] Re: The hypocracy is almost blinding.
by Patrice Ossona de Mendez - Mar 12th 2001 13:53:21

It might be politicaly correct to mix KKK and porn, but intellectually distatrous.

I know a huge proportion of the good thinking US citizen prefer to see people killing each other than to accidentaly see two people making love.

Some people say that porn will lead to rape; tell me to what leads the freedom of buying a weapon... This affirmation has nothing to do with psychological arguments: if you want a responsible, don't look at a porn that actually is a way to decrease some people's sexual internal stress, but rather to commercials which deliberately increases it as a way to sell more.

Moreover, as long as the porn images come from consentent adults, what is the problem? Is it so disgusting to see where we all come from? People care less when buying shoes made in China by kids under the constraint... Some people probably prefer the good old days, when husband and wifes had to imagine by themselves how to do it, because, O god, no one would never had spoke about it... There might be a good reason why the most puritan countries also got a higher level of depression and psychological diseases.

--
Pom

[reply] [top]

---

[»] Re: The hypocracy is almost blinding.
by K Turner - Oct 3rd 2007 08:48:09


> [...]

> see two people making love.

> [...]

I have yet to see any porn where people are "making love." You do know the difference, right?


[reply] [top]

---

[»] Javascript browser hijacking
by ortholattice - Mar 9th 2001 16:10:16

Fundamentally I don't care one way or the other about adult sites but
when I accidentally get into one, say from a Google search for something
unrelated, typically they "take over" my browser by re-opening windows
as fast as I can close them. Frankly this in itself is enough to turn
me from them even if I were interested. Is this supposed to attract
people to the site?? (Yes I can turn off Javascript but I doubt the
average Joe knows this.) Because of the browser hijacking alone I stay
away from adult sites like the plague and have zero respect for the
programmers who use such inconsiderate tricks.

[reply] [top]

[»] Military is worse
by fraktalisman - Mar 9th 2001 13:37:48

There are so many 'honorable' programmers working for the military sector, and the most popular computer games are about killing.
I do see some very serious points of criticism against porn, - I don't know which kind of sexual content you are working with ...
But still I'd say it's better to wank than to kill!

[reply] [top]

[»] Re: Conformity
by DarkStar - Mar 7th 2001 23:25:13

I did not comment on most of you reply because I did not feel it needed to be refuted. However, I may not have fully understood the point of your reply. I got the impression that you were trying to say that Christianity was not the cause of SeekingSin?s shunning. In an ideal world I would agree totally, so I did not feel the need to comment. Unfortunately, in my experience, many, if not most, Christian?s do not behave in the manner prescribed by the bible. I do not claim that this is necessarily the norm, but it is my experience that Christians do actively try to convert people to their religion, and do seek to force their morals upon others. From religious propaganda, picketing of stores carrying porn, labeling other religions ?Satanic? (wiccans do not even believe in Satan), seeking to enter their morals as laws, wars over slight differences in their religion, all the way to murdering abortion clinic workers. I wish Christianity was what it could be, but it is often used as a shield, behind which people can do as they please and feel justified and good about it. I never attacked anyone?s morality, except for the need to force it upon others by labeling different sets of morals ?degrading?. If you do not wish to participate in pornography, no one is asking you to, but since you do not wish to participate in pornography, you are asking that no one do so. I did not indicate that you said or think that sex is wrong. I disagreed with your statement that pornography is degrading, and started my argument with the statement that sex is not degrading, which I felt was a good place to start a chain of reasoning. However, there is a segment of the Christian faith that believe that sex is wrong except for reproductive purposes.
>You said, "Telling people that they are of less worth because the engage in natural human tendencies IS degrading to them." On the contrary, this is a fundamental property of organized society.
Telling people that they are of less worth because
the engage in natural human tendencies is a
fundamental property of organized society? Is that
what you meant to say? That does not sound like a
Christian society.

You claim that sex in the animal kingdom is the
strongest male raping the most reproductive
female. This may be the case with some species,
but it certainly is not the only behavior. Ducks,
for instance, mate for life. The female black
widow spider, kills and consumes the male at the
completion of copulation. In many species of
birds, the male is more brightly colored in order
to attract the female. The animal kingdom is far
more complex then you say.


> But, for the good of society we have learned to
ignore our human tendencies and decided that rape
is wrong.

I do not for one moment believe that there are
baser urges within people that must be overcome
for the good of society, but I would not label
these our ?human tendencies?.


> I'm not contesting that people are attracted to
pornography or care free sex. I'm just saying
that they have negative effects on society. Also,
the statements that I made were speaking of people
who view porn, not specifically to those who make
it. Sure it's a choice; so is cocaine. That
doesn't make it healthy. When men watch
pornography their animal instincts are baited.
They begin to think of women as sex objects. I'm
not saying that they go out and rape every woman
in town as a consequence, but the effects do
manifest themselves in more subtle ways.

What effects? Give me some examples. I totally
disagree that pornography can only make men think
of women as sex objects. I watch pornography with
my wife, and it has brought us closer together in
our relationship. It has challenged our notions of
what our rolls are and helped us grow into better
people. I actually think that there are some good
roll models for women in pornography. I am not
saying that women should go out and have sex with
everyone, but women are often portrayed as having
the power to choose to have sex, and enjoy sex,
and essentially do what they want. This is far
better then the view that the woman should just be
the housewife and has no right to a life of her
own or to choose what to do with her body. A few
decades ago sex was portrayed as a burden for
women to bear to please their husband.

Unfortunately there are some people who have been
forced into the porn industry by economics,
events, or other people. However, I seriously
doubt that this is the norm or even very common. I
do not have any statistics to point you to. I am
basing my assertion on women that I have
interacted with online and in my personal life
that produce pornography and give it away free of
charge, simply for the enjoyment they get for it.
You would say they are being degraded. I say they
are exercising their freedom.

[reply] [top]

[»] Re: Conformity
by DarkStar - Mar 7th 2001 23:24:54

I did not comment on most of you reply because I did not feel it needed to be refuted. However, I may not have fully understood the point of your reply. I got the impression that you were trying to say that Christianity was not the cause of SeekingSin?s shunning. In an ideal world I would agree totally, so I did not feel the need to comment. Unfortunately, in my experience, many, if not most, Christian?s do not behave in the manner prescribed by the bible. I do not claim that this is necessarily the norm, but it is my experience that Christians do actively try to convert people to their religion, and do seek to force their morals upon others. From religious propaganda, picketing of stores carrying porn, labeling other religions ?Satanic? (wiccans do not even believe in Satan), seeking to enter their morals as laws, wars over slight differences in their religion, all the way to murdering abortion clinic workers. I wish Christianity was what it could be, but it is often used as a shield, behind which people can do as they please and feel justified and good about it. I never attacked anyone?s morality, except for the need to force it upon others by labeling different sets of morals ?degrading?. If you do not wish to participate in pornography, no one is asking you to, but since you do not wish to participate in pornography, you are asking that no one do so. I did not indicate that you said or think that sex is wrong. I disagreed with your statement that pornography is degrading, and started my argument with the statement that sex is not degrading, which I felt was a good place to start a chain of reasoning. However, there is a segment of the Christian faith that believe that sex is wrong except for reproductive purposes.
>You said, "Telling people that they are of less worth because the engage in natural human tendencies IS degrading to them." On the contrary, this is a fundamental property of organized society.
Telling people that they are of less worth because
the engage in natural human tendencies is a
fundamental property of organized society? Is that
what you meant to say? That does not sound like a
Christian society.

You claim that sex in the animal kingdom is the
strongest male raping the most reproductive
female. This may be the case with some species,
but it certainly is not the only behavior. Ducks,
for instance, mate for life. The female black
widow spider, kills and consumes the male at the
completion of copulation. In many species of
birds, the male is more brightly colored in order
to attract the female. The animal kingdom is far
more complex then you say.


> But, for the good of society we have learned to
ignore our human tendencies and decided that rape
is wrong.

I do not for one moment believe that there are
baser urges within people that must be overcome
for the good of society, but I would not label
these our ?human tendencies?.


> I'm not contesting that people are attracted to
pornography or care free sex. I'm just saying
that they have negative effects on society. Also,
the statements that I made were speaking of people
who view porn, not specifically to those who make
it. Sure it's a choice; so is cocaine. That
doesn't make it healthy. When men watch
pornography their animal instincts are baited.
They begin to think of women as sex objects. I'm
not saying that they go out and rape every woman
in town as a consequence, but the effects do
manifest themselves in more subtle ways.

What effects? Give me some examples. I totally
disagree that pornography can only make men think
of women as sex objects. I watch pornography with
my wife, and it has brought us closer together in
our relationship. It has challenged our notions of
what our rolls are and helped us grow into better
people. I actually think that there are some good
roll models for women in pornography. I am not
saying that women should go out and have sex with
everyone, but women are often portrayed as having
the power to choose to have sex, and enjoy sex,
and essentially do what they want. This is far
better then the view that the woman should just be
the housewife and has no right to a life of her
own or to choose what to do with her body. A few
decades ago sex was portrayed as a burden for
women to bear to please their husband.

Unfortunately there are some people who have been
forced into the porn industry by economics,
events, or other people. However, I seriously
doubt that this is the norm or even very common. I
do not have any statistics to point you to. I am
basing my assertion on women that I have
interacted with online and in my personal life
that produce pornography and give it away free of
charge, simply for the enjoyment they get for it.
You would say they are being degraded. I say they
are exercising their freedom.

[reply] [top]

[»] I Like PORN
by labradore - Mar 6th 2001 13:19:44

My wife loves porn. We get a thrill from it. We get off. Porn is not automatically bad.

--
there is no .sig

[reply] [top]

[»] That's not the issue, though.
by imipak - Mar 6th 2001 14:32:41

Personally, I detest porn. But that's just my opinion, and nobody is required to agree, disagree or give a damn.

The issue here is one of intolerence, arrogance, contempt and religious preaching. Only, this time, it's not from a religious group, but from a perl script hacker.

He would have had the same reaction, had he preached the mightiness of his code, when working for any organization. The fact is, he's jumped into a hornet's nest, and is now whining that the hornets have chosen to sting him.

The fact that he's working for a site of "ill repute" doesn't exactly add to his image. Remember, most such sites are guilty of spamming (and much of that spam violates State and National laws in much of the world), privacy violations (which are,themselves, illegal in many countries), and other such pleasentry.

Because he's coding for them, he's supporting such anti-social and illegal activity. For all anyone here knows, he's the one who wrote the code for them to break those laws.

It's hard to have sympathy for such a person.

[reply] [top]

---

[»] Re: That's not the issue, though.
by Deekoo L. - Mar 24th 2001 23:01:30


> The fact that he's working for a site
> of "ill repute" doesn't exactly add to
> his image. Remember, most such sites are
> guilty of spamming (and much of that
> spam violates State and National laws in
> much of the world), privacy violations
> (which are,themselves, illegal in many
> countries), and other such pleasentry.
> Because he's coding for them, he's
> supporting such anti-social and illegal
> activity. For all anyone here knows,
I don't have any master census of porn sites
available; however, I'm inclined to doubt that
*most* of them spam. The porn site owners I've
worked with hate spam as much as the next guy.
Further, those I've met in physworld abhor the
practice of labelling things 'free' and then
attaching a 'please input your credit card for
FREE ($49.95/monthly) proof of age'. They don't
use Javascript popups all over the bloody place
(and so far, the ones I've worked for haven't
inflicted ANY javascript popups on their visitors.)
They don't spam. They don't clutter search
engines with trillions of duplicate front pages.

And as a result, the ethical porn sites don't get
noticed by those who don't want to see porn.
While the pushy jerks with a quadrillion front-door
pages, design that looks like the result of giving
a chimpanzee too much crack, and four popups for
every window you close get all the attention.

[reply] [top]

---

[»] Perhaps your problem isn't the porn at all?
by Doug McLaren - Mar 6th 2001 12:31:54

I was reading through the article, and what struck
me was the lack of humiliy I saw ...

Stuff like -

> Performance is the holy grail. When I code for
> an adult company, I try to eke every last drop
> of performance out of my code
> Then I share all my information with my coder
> friends, so that they can do it too.

> I work 7 days a week, 15 hours a day. So do
> most of my fellow porn coders.

> Can you honestly say that you've traded the most
> secret of secrets, the best hacks you've ever
> done, the most optimized code you've
> produced, and the nicest libraries you've
> written with your fellow programmers? I have

> I'm a porn coder, and I'm damn proud of it.

> Hence, most of us enjoy a rather nice life with
> a nice paycheck coming in and nice
> fringe benefits.

There's more, but you get the idea. In fact, the
only somewhat humble statement I saw
was -

> Some of you might have seen some of my stuff on
> freshmeat. I'm not the best, but I'm no
> newbie either.

... and even that wasn't that humble.

Yes, these statements may all be true, but it
sounds like you're explaining
to us why you're so much better than everybody
else, and because of that
people should respect you or something.

It sounds like you think that the rest of the
world owes you respect/appreciation. They don't
-- respect and appreciation are things you have to
earn. If you come across in person like you do in
this article, I wouldn't be
at all surprised to hear that some people don't
want to deal with you.

The porn may be part of the reaction, but I doubt
it's all of it.

[reply] [top]

[»] I always figured porn sites were on the leading edge.
by Alan - Mar 5th 2001 16:01:02

I assumed you guys were ahead of the pack. Porn always saw new technology as away to earn $.

[reply] [top]

[»] Live in the problem, OR live with the solution
by imipak - Mar 5th 2001 13:30:42

You can't do both. The best advice any person can give is to tell you to stop whinging about how the world doesn't agree with your opinions, and start living your own life for a change.

My opinion of prawnography is irrelevent here. All that matters is that if you pick up a knife and stab yourself with it, don't blame the knife if you bleed. Your actions are not its fault.

You seem to want the best of both worlds. To live in a community that is profitable ONLY because it is despised, but you also want everyone outside that community to like you. Sorry, but you've made your choice, and complaining about religion, etc, isn't going to make any difference. Your choice has carried with it a consequence. If you don't like the consequence, don't make the choice.

As for the server comparison, that's about as stupid as Microsoft's bogus claims. You can't compare static or mostly static content with highly dynamic sites. If your scripts were as good as they "appear" to be, we should be seeing 10x - 100x the performance achieved by systems such as Freshmeat and Slashdot. We don't. Twice the performance is, frankly, abysmal given the performance gains shown on raw benchtests of very basic, or static, web delivery servers.

Last, but not least, I'd strongly urge you to go along to the local branch of SLAA or SA, and see what they think the problem could be. After all, this is their area of expertise, and you're a programmer, not a psychologist.

I think you might be surprised by the results.

[reply] [top]

[»] 15 Hours a day???
by Erik Pischel - Mar 5th 2001 07:16:31

I've always wondered how people can work 7 days a week and 15 hours a day.
How many hours do you sleep? let's asume about 7, for the sake of the argument. so you have only 2 hours spare time every day? Do you meet any friends? Do you have
a girl friend? Do you read a newspaper, go to the cinema or anything else apart from
coding? I can't imagine you have enough time for that. Please explain this to me,
I'm really curious. Isn't it just while(!dead) { Coding; sleeping }?

Moreover, I've always wondered about people who spend a lot energy on an open source
project and have a daily job. Do they have a living?

Just curious...

[reply] [top]

[»] Re: 15 Hours a day???
by Hatamoto - Mar 5th 2001 08:39:06


> I've always wondered how people can work 7 days a week and 15 hours a day.
> How many hours do you sleep? let's asume about 7, for the sake of the
> argument. so you have only 2 hours spare time every day? Do you meet any friends?
> Do you have a girl friend? Do you read a newspaper, go to the cinema or anything
> else apart from coding? I can't imagine you have enough time for that. Please explain
> this to me, I'm really curious. Isn't it just
>
> while(!dead) { Coding; sleeping }?
>
> Moreover, I've always wondered about people who spend a lot energy on an open source
> project and have a daily job. Do they have a living?
>
> Just curious... Heh... the assumption there is that all day, every day is spent in hardcore nose in the keyboard coding marathons. That's not how it works. Like any any other job, there's lulls in the action, broken up by periods of extremely intense pressure and activity. Once those periods are done, you go back into low burn and wait for the next wave. "Lives" take place in the slow bits. ;)

As for me, I have a wife, 2 kids, a job (obviously) and we have plenty of time to do stuff together cuz I work from home. Of course, when the crunch is on and everything needs to be done tomorrow (except the stuff that was supposed to be done yesterday) then it's a little more insane and I have to sequester myself into my own little world for a while, but those periods don't last long and I get to play when I resurface.

My contributions to open source stuff has been spotty, but it follows the same sort of pattern in my experience. Things lag along until something momentous happens and a flurry of activity begins. In the best case scenario, the paying job is the open source job and you can do everything without conflict. Commonly, the open source flurry happens to fall in a lull in the real job, so there's minimal effect. Obviously, when real job and OS hobby meet, bad things can happen ;)

[reply] [top]

---

[»] morals are *always* applied, in every situation
by phireph0x - Mar 5th 2001 04:39:25

how do we as human relate to one another? by a pre-defined set of rules and
procedures (developed throughout the ages) commonly referred to as morals or ethics. I'm not speaking of societal rules, because they all vary from one culture to the next, but rather basic behavioral precepts, as it were. Some choose to ignore or outright violate these standards.. others slightly bend certain ones, or modify them on a case-by-case basis. Here are a few of the more basic ones we're probably all familiar with:
1) Don't physically harm or (worst case scenario) kill your fellow human beings
2) Don't take action which will result in directly or indirectly violating rule 1
3) Do treat others in the same way you would like to be treated

Along with this simple subset of rules, we each apply our own value-belief systems that we've been raised with. As stated ealier, some choose to ignore these, even the basic precepts. These may justify their actions with a higher purpose (kill in self-defense) or not (psychopath kills for pleasure/demented sense of curiosity). In any event, we all apply our own belief systems to each situation involving others, either directly or indirectly. It's unavoidable. The way others interact with you, the "porn coder," is a matter of the individual's belief system, coupled with the thought of how it (the interaction) will be perceived by others. This also functions in a self-serving manner sometimes: familial values are stressed in public, while in private individuals seek to fulfill their own personal agendas.

The reason porn exists is a fundamental one: we're all different, and certain individuals are deemed more sexually attractive than others (of course even this varies on a case-by-case basis, i.e. what one or many people find appealing others may not, or to a lesser extent). In a culture such as ours (American) which places great emphasis on looks, physical/sexual attraction, this is to be expected. This is precisely the reason the porn industry has blossomed into the multibillion dollar industry it is today. An unfortunate consequence of this is an unhealthy balance (individuals captured in porn media are transformed from humans into objects of lust and sexual fulfillment), and the creation of the "scumbag." Let's face it: if we all were equally attractive, what would be the need for porn? why would it exist? Just some philosophical musings to consider...

[reply] [top]

[»] porn, Code, Alternative thinking
by SaintDragon - Mar 4th 2001 21:22:33

"Hey Great !"

You guys and girls on the porn team go for it and dont let anyone hold you down. If people are not ready to grow up and learn or accept well they will one day die out one day anyway.

Just hang in there and follow your dreams

Your Truely

Ryder Saint

[reply] [top]

[»] I totally Understand
by LuckDragon - Mar 4th 2001 21:17:21

I myself have written code for both porn and non-porn companies alike. However, the non-porn companies don't know it.. nor do they need to in my opinion.. I mean, the main question to me when it comes to coding is "Can you do it?" if my answer is yes, what my coding history is, is truly irrelevant, isn't it?

As for the author's views regarding people's attitudes, sadly, what the author is saying is true.. but my way of looking at things is that if the people are going to be that shallow and judge you, then they themselves are just as guilty, because they don't want to associate with you because of their religious beliefs, etc.. but yet, it says in the bible which they are so "boldly" believing in.. "Judge not lest ye be judged (Let ye who is perfect cast the first stone)" You figure it out.. I stopped trying years ago..

And as stated earlier by someone "Regular" companies don't want to associate with porn coders not because they aren't good coders, but because it's "improper" for non-porn companies to associate with porn companies in any way, shape or form..

I guess people haven't seen the protests against Disney because Disney is one of the largest porn producers around.. but they keep it so behind the scenes because people would stop associating Disney with Family, Morality, and "Cleanliness"

[reply] [top]

[»] My Problem with this editorial
by Jeffrey Fulmer - Mar 4th 2001 16:17:17

I could care less that Seeking Sin writes perl for porn sites. My problem lies in the fact that he had to reply to replies of his own article, an indication that it was not complete. Really, if the author's reply is not "see my article" then the article is NOT complete. The result is a scattered collage of incoherant thoughts which bounce from author to reader and back again. Do I really want to stick around to see how this thing ends? I don't think so.

[reply] [top]

[»] Re: My Problem with this editorial
by MadCat - Mar 4th 2001 17:18:29


> I could care less that Seeking Sin
> writes perl for porn sites. My problem
> lies in the fact that he had to reply to
> replies of his own article, an
> indication that it was not complete.
> Really, if the author's reply is not
> "see my article" then the
> article is NOT complete. The result is
> a scattered collage of incoherant
> thoughts which bounce from author to
> reader and back again. Do I really want
> to stick around to see how this thing
> ends? I don't think so.
The article indeed isn't complete - if it would be
complete, you'd be reading through a 20 page essay
- there's too much to explain and not enough space
to do it in.


--
-- Bernhard van Staveren Wacky Perl Geek

[reply] [top]

---

[»] Choices
by Mahi - Mar 4th 2001 10:07:06

I think, generally, in cases such as this it would help to gain a better understanding of the underlying issues by projecting the situation to an (extreme) analogy.

For example, if you were a contract killer, I doubt you would be as confused regarding the reaction of your peers to your vocation. (Right?)

Or, as anther example, if you were a chemist working for an illicit drug concern, (again) I doubt you would be as confused regarding the reaction of your peers to your vocation.

The presumption of lack of harm to individuals and society by pornography is the 'moral' underpinning of your view of the situation. Somehow, presumabely because of your age, you seem to be blind to this fact.

Yes, porn happens to be legal, but then so is the manufacture of cigarettes. (Welcome to the Capitalist Utopia!) And it is precisely because of the structure of today's society were profit provides moral support for activity, that the social pressures outside of the control of the 'machine' are of even greater importance than the 'old days) (say 1800's).

(Anyone here sick and tired of getting an unsolicited pile of porn spam everyday? Who wrote these scripts?)

And since you seem reflective enough, I also point out to you that you MUST have realized by now that the people you associate with have great (whether you are conscious of it or not) influence on your character and its development.

By being a declared productive member of the Porn Machine, you are implicitly advertising a set of values, and it makes little difference whether you are fully cogonizant of the make up of this value set.

Now it is absolutely clear that you, myself, and others are clearly entitled (no, make that required) to forming our own judgements about Life, Truth, etc. Would I agree to do what you do (even though I myself have partaken of Porn)? No, I would not. Because by doing so, I would be contributing my resources to an industry that I know (personally) to be of harm to its consumers, and employees.

(Since you must have access to a great ol' cache of porn, I advise you to take a look at the faces of porn star from her debute to her final exit. The damage done is clearly visible on these faces; this is practically an unrefutable fact. Porn damages (almost) everyone involved in it.)

I guess my advice to you would be to NOT WASTE your talents in order to fill the pockets of some porn kingpin.

--
Just a fish, really.

[reply] [top]

[»] Choice is paramount. I made the right one.
by psychaotic - Apr 18th 2004 14:53:09

You write:


> Or, as anther example, if you were a chemist working for an illicit drug concern, (again) I doubt
>you would be as confused regarding the reaction of your peers to your vocation.

That should depend on the drug. It confuses the issue to talk of all recreational substances under one umbrella term "drugs", implying that all drugs harm those who consume them. Some do, some don't, some both harm and also benefit, depending on circumstance. To assume all drugs harm equally gives credence to those who want to make self-determination of their own brain states more and more prohibited, which makes for more harm in the long run.


>Yes, porn happens to be legal, but then so is the manufacture of cigarettes.

And yet marijuana, a much less dangerous, less-addictive drug than cigarettes or alcohol, one that is becoming known to have some anti-cancerous capabilities, and one which has been enjoyed all over the planet for tens of thousands of years...is ILLEGAL. Because it cannot be patented by the pharmocorp cabals, most likely. And also, because it is associated with sexuality. The earliest campaigns against marijuana suggested that it would make Black and Mexican men libidinous beyond control and cause them to rape white men's daughters and wives. Now porn has been accused of virtually the same thing.

Does it always come back to sex? To the bewildering need some have to prevent sexual enjoyment?


> it is precisely because of the structure of today's society were profit provides moral support for activity
> that the social pressures outside of the control of the 'machine' are of even greater importance than in the 'old days'

This is not a good direction to take a society, for it only leads to it becoming an unfree, undemocratic one if these "social pressures" become so strong that they become prohibitive to those trying to make a living.

BOTTOM LINE:

Those who don't want to smoke cigarettes, read porn and take drugs don't have to do these things.

People who do not like these things for any reason should not spend so much time and effort thinking about them, and exposing themselves to them as part of their massive effort to make other peoplenot do these things!

They seem to insist that it is morally proper to prevent another from experiencing something she wishes to because THEY think it's harmful for her. Why doesn't she get to decide that?

This is not right. If they are over the age of eighteen they are adults - that need to be regarded as such, and not treated as children. Under that age, a child is responsible to follow the decrees of his or her parents. But no one should act in loco parentis after they become legal adults.


> Anyone here sick and tired of getting an unsolicited pile of porn spam everyday?

{holds up hand high} We ALL hate spam.


> Who wrote these scripts?

Probably not SeekingSin. Tech geeks tend to hate spam even more than the average email user. I'm sure he would like to throttle the guy who wrote that script, or at least the one who SOLD it to the SPAMMER jerks, just as much as all of us would.

See, porn SPAMS are a cross-over. They are forced into our email boxes without being asked for. This is different, it IS harmful, it steals bandwidth, causes social embarrassments when people who don't understand that EVERYONE gets these spams sees one of them, and it is also annoying the hell out of me! But only because it broke my choice barrier.


> No, I would not. Because by doing so, I would be contributing my resources to an industry that I know (personally) to be
> of harm to its consumers, and employees.

Can you elabourate? What are you claiming is the "harm"? I mean, show concrete examples, please, not abstractions about "decency".

I continue to contend that I have been only enriched and never harmed by my involvement in this industry. And I SHOULD know best about this one matter, at least.


>take a look at the faces of porn star from her debut to her final exit. The damage done is clearly
> visible on these faces. Porn damages (almost) everyone involved in it.

I would advise you to look at ANY photographs of ANY human being at the ages of 18, 25, 30, 35 and 40. You will see the same progression there. It's called "aging" - and everyone gets to do it...some faster, some slower. That's genetics. Some are able to fool the camera a little with little cosmetic improvements, and many are the photographers who have created illusions with the camera that turn a young woman old, an old woman young. A porn star who is also taking heroin and smoking crack may show a marked decline, and I think you may be basing your claim around one of these "then and now" series collections.

There is a certain phase of life - when I had no love interests or schoolwork - in which direct involvement in the sex industry (work as a call girl) was emotionally right for me. It would not have been right for me if it had been done at the wrong point in my life or for longer than the length of time I should havet, which was about three years. Now I work on the periphery of it, making web designs and graphics used on sites. It's good money and I am qualified to do the work. I can think of a great many other jobs which would have me all wrinkled and flabby-faced in about three months from the boredom and the stress. Come to think of it, people have been telling me this year that I'm looking better than I had before I started doing this work.

Please don't judge all adult websites from the torrent of spam. My clients' sites never spam and never will as long as I am working on them! Our perl coder sees to it that those who spam US lose their accounts for it...FAST.

--
-monde

[reply] [top]

---

[»] Sex is good for you. Porn is wonderful. Everyone relax and enjoy some ass.
by Synaptic - Mar 3rd 2001 23:42:07

I just read that sex increases your health, happines and life span.
I love porn. I think its absolutly wonderful, beautiful, and natural.
Nothing wrong with pushing nice juicy ass over the information super highway.
peace, sex, and porn.
Synaptic.

[reply] [top]

[»] Re: Sex is good for you. Porn is wonderful. Everyone relax and enjoy some ass.
by Mahi - Mar 4th 2001 10:38:55


> I just read that sex increases your
> health,
> happines and life span.
> I love porn. I think its absolutly
> wonderful,
> beautiful, and natural.
> Nothing wrong with pushing nice juicy
> ass
> over the information super highway.
>
> peace, sex, and porn.
> Synaptic.
Keep in mind that watching images of Sex is not exactly Sex.

Now go and see if you can read anywhere that by constantly viewing images of sex, being reduced to mentally fitting yourself into the presented image, having latent homosexuality aroused by being forced (images again) to reconstruct the act of sucking a C*** in your mind, etc. increases your health.



--
Just a fish, really.

[reply] [top]

---

[»] Re: Sex is good for you. Porn is wonderful. Everyone relax and enjoy some ass.
by Synaptic - Mar 7th 2001 04:36:28


>
> % I just read that sex increases
> your
> % health,
> % happines and life span.
> % I love porn. I think its
> absolutly
> % wonderful,
> % beautiful, and natural.
> % Nothing wrong with pushing nice
> juicy
> % ass
> % over the information super
> highway.
> %
> % peace, sex, and porn.
> % Synaptic.
>
>
> Keep in mind that watching images of
> Sex is not exactly Sex.
>
> Now go and see if you can read
> anywhere that by constantly viewing
> images of sex, being reduced to mentally
> fitting yourself into the presented
> image, having latent homosexuality
> aroused by being forced (images again)
> to reconstruct the act of sucking a C***
> in your mind, etc. increases your
> health.
>
>

Water is some times considered a good thing. But
poeple drown.

But, I don't understand how the exsistance of a
media can force me to constantly view it or to be
reduced to mentally fitting myself into the
presented media, having homosexuality aroused by
being forced to reconstruct the act of sucking a
C*** in my mind.

Personally; I believe your responce is unrealistic
and bizaar.



[reply] [top]

---

[»] WoW, this artical has had a lot of comments added for 1 day
by Synaptic - Mar 3rd 2001 23:34:30

I read this artical yesterday. and it had 1 comment.
I read it today and it had 106. this must be a
record breaker.

[reply] [top]

[»] I like porn
by That Weasel - Mar 3rd 2001 23:08:57

What's the big problem? People need to accept that porn will be around FOREVER and that yes, it employs some of us coders. Someone has to do it. Anyway, just wanted to put my two cents in. Oh yeah, I like porn, don't you? And if not, what's wrong with you?

[reply] [top]

[»] *boggle*
by Eric Blade - Mar 3rd 2001 20:40:51

All hail people who still beleive in optimization in this crazy world of mega-gigahertz machines with gigabytes even terabytes of RAM and drive space.

(on this note, can anyone tell me the least expensive way to evaluate including a file into an HTML file? SSI, PHP, JavaScript, etc? I want to make my website fast, but I'm currently depending on code that takes some time to process includes and so on within)

Back in the DAY, when I learned to code, it was a C= 64, and you optimized the HELL out of every piece of code you had, since we were working with BBS software that -barely- fit within the 64Kb that the computer had to work with. Each module to the BBS had to fit within I think it was 22K, code, data, all of it. And if you couldn't do that, you had to make multiple modules, which with the I/O time on these computers, made an absolutely awful impression on your users, as you had to load anotehr 22K or so off of the slowest floppy disk ever seen by mankind.

I've done a bit of C coding, even did some Kernel hacking back in the Linux 0.98 days.. always concentrating on the fastest, least amount of code, yet most readable/comprehendable version, also. Sacrifice only a very very miniscule amount of performance for clarity. (You must -always- have clarity.. any web-based code that comes rolled up into three text lines of 254 characters each should be shot)

Now, I'm doing web coding ( http://blackmagik.dynup.net ). Learning a lot about new languages, new concepts (PHP, mSQL, porting things from one platform or program suite to another, even learning HTML, as I really don't know any of it's complexities yet.. actually i'm wondering if HTML raelly -has- any complexities.. it seems way too simple .. oh, JavaScript seems fun too).. and here I am working with a web-server that runs on a P2/450, with 32MB ram. And dammit, I'm going to turn out an amazing website that will take a lot of abuse on this P2/450 with 32MB ram, running not only as my webserver, but as my fileserver for my LAN, my email server, my internet router for a 6-machine LAN, and maybe even a Q3:A server, too. And "whatever-supreme-being-you-choose-to-believe" bless it, it's going to be fast, it's going to be efficient, and it's going to kick arse.

Hail to the optimizers. Keep your costs down, and your bottom lines high! Optimize your code like never before. Fine-tuned code just happens to also be a lot more easily maintained, and is a lot more portable. (never ever sacrifice a machine or browser specific performance trick for something you can do cross-platform. You never know when your target platform will change! At least, not unless it can be easily changed to another platform with a quick sed script [ie, half of the conversions from mySQL database servers to mSQL db servers can probably be done with a quick sed script .. oh, and btw, mSQL's performance in a lot of areas seems to outdo mySQL too :) ] ) jesus, I don't think I've ever written such a long paragraph within parenthesis and brackets. lol

->XO http://blackmagik.dynup.net/
PS, it doesn't matter what you code for. Hell, I know a fair chunk of porn site owners/operators/webmasters, not as say best of friends, but certainly as acquaintances. And that reminds me, I should probably consult them about my various problems while learning all these wonderful new codes and platforms.

--
-- http://cakepoker.com/?t=3491&Lang=en

[reply] [top]

[»] SinSeeker: Put up or SHUT UP!
by Daryl Baser - Mar 3rd 2001 20:08:28

"I'm a porn coder, and I'm damn proud of it."

Then show us the sites you are so happy to work for. What is your real name?

[reply] [top]

[»] Re: SinSeeker: Put up or SHUT UP!
by MadCat - Mar 3rd 2001 20:41:47


>
> "I'm a porn coder, and I'm damn proud
> of it."
>
> Then show us the sites you are so
> happy to
> work for. What is your real name?
>
>
>
Proud yes, totally stupid, no :) I won't give you
my real name, since there are still some people
out there that don't know what I do for a living.
I'd like to keep it that way ;)

As for the sites I've worked on; here's a couple
http://daily-lesbian.com/
http://daily-oral.com/
http://daily-pee.com/
http://daily-toys.com/
http://search-adult.com/
http://big-penis.com (actually more
http://webmasters.big-penis.com - the entire
partnership software is mine);
http://www.sexual-linkage.com/
http://www.hotnnasty.com/

All other projects I've worked on are more or less
'backend' projects, and for those I can't actually
discuss any details in public :( damn NDA's are a
pain in the ass.



--
-- Bernhard van Staveren Wacky Perl Geek

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---

[»] The Real Reason
by Jonathan Jeffus - Mar 3rd 2001 20:02:01

Anyone who'd look down on a fellow perl programmer, just 'cause he works for an adult site has some mental problems.

I think working for a porn site would kick ass. It sure beats the hell out of any other programming I can think of. (Yes, perhaps even professional game programing.)

Clearly the ppl who look down on porn programmers are really jealous. They can't get a job like that, which makes them green (and other colors) with envy.

[reply] [top]

[»] Re: The Real Reason
by Daryl Baser - Mar 3rd 2001 20:11:08


> Anyone who'd look down on a fellow perl
> programmer, just 'cause he works for an
> adult site has some mental problems.
> Awww "fellow Perl coders". I get all teary eyed just hearing that.

Larry Wall is a big-time Jesus freak and looks down on the porn industry.

[reply] [top]

---

[»] Re: The Real Reason
by MadCat - Mar 3rd 2001 20:39:03


>
> % Anyone who'd look down on a fellow
> perl
> % programmer, just 'cause he works for
> an
> % adult site has some mental
> problems.
> %
>
>
> Awww "fellow Perl coders". I get all
> teary
> eyed just hearing that.
>
> Larry Wall is a big-time Jesus freak
> and
> looks down on the porn industry.
>
>
*snicker* I'd say about 80% of all porn sites are
more or less powered by Perl. The remaining 20% is
coldfusion or ASP. Somehow I find a great deal of
humor in this fact :)



--
-- Bernhard van Staveren Wacky Perl Geek

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---

[»] Alternative view(s)...
by Naicigam - Mar 3rd 2001 19:07:29

Please try saying these out loud and see if they work correctly...

"My work improves an ultra-rightwing conservative site."

"My work supports a white supremacy site."

"My work improves the functionality of a leftwing radical site."

"My work speeds the spread of harmful information like drug recipes and bomb instructions."

"My work promotes the subjugation or degradation of another human being."

Regards...

[reply] [top]

[»] Re: Alternative view(s)...
by MadCat - Mar 3rd 2001 19:12:33


> Please try saying these out loud and see
> if they work correctly...
>
> "My work improves an
> ultra-rightwing conservative
> site."
>
> "My work supports a white
> supremacy site."
>
> "My work improves the
> functionality of a leftwing radical
> site."
>
> "My work speeds the spread of
> harmful information like drug recipes
> and bomb instructions."
>
> "My work promotes the subjugation
> or degradation of another human
> being."
>
> Regards...
Hmm, valid point but most of your alternate
viewpoints rotate around a racial preference :)
Porn doesn't do racism ;) As far as drug and bomb
instructions - they kill - porn does not. The
subjugation/degradation of another human being -
maybe, but everyone you see in those nifty porn
pics has chosen to be in them out of their own
free will, and if they happen to get off on being
degraded that's their personal choice (although I
for one don't see what could be interesting about
that).




--
-- Bernhard van Staveren Wacky Perl Geek

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[»] performance isn't king
by DevilM - Mar 3rd 2001 18:25:30

I don't see how you can be interested in performance when you talk about CGI and Perl. Maybe you porn guys should use a high performance web application server, so that you can have more time working on content.

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[»] Re: performance isn't king
by MadCat - Mar 3rd 2001 18:54:11


> I don't see how you can be interested in
> performance when you talk about CGI and
> Perl. Maybe you porn guys should use a
> high performance web application server,
> so that you can have more time working
> on content.
I talk about Perl and CGI because that's easier to
explain than a mod_perl setup.

I can safely say that mod_perl with well-written
perl code is as fast, if not faster, than a high
performance web application server, for a fraction
of the cost. :)




--
-- Bernhard van Staveren Wacky Perl Geek

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[»] Various things....
by MadCat - Mar 3rd 2001 18:14:29

Okay, I feel the need again to slap another
comment on here.

For those of you who say that I should stop my
whining; Actually I'm not whining - I'm perfectly
okay with people shunning me or not liking me
because of what I do for a living. The article
merely focuses on the point that 'porn' directly
equates to 'go away, you sinner' (in a really
generalised way that is).

For those of you who said that I'm showing my age;
maybe I am, but think about this - the average age
of coders in the porn world is between 21 and 25.
Some of the biggest porn peddling companies are
run by 23 year olds. Some 18 year olds drive 2001
Chevvy Corvette's around the block because they
made damn fine money off of peddling porn.

So maybe I'm showing my age, but maybe it's just
the fact that the porn industry is in general
comprised of younger people - so you immediately
have the added bonus of something like a
'generation gap' to also deal with.

Please note however, that I am in no way implying
that everyone should like me - heck, I said it in
the article, feel free to hate me, I dont't care
:) Just try to see it from my point of view before
you condemn me - that's after all, the respectable
'human' thing to do :)

--
-- Bernhard van Staveren Wacky Perl Geek

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[»] Re: Various things....
by Haohoa - Mar 3rd 2001 18:54:18


> feel free to hate me, I dont't care :)
> Just try to see it from my point of view before
> you condemn me - that's after all, the
> respectable 'human' thing to do :)
But we don't hate you, does that makes you feel
any better? Your point of view is that you are a
good coder, so people should find you interesting.
Further, you think you're even more interesting
because you're a porn coder. You're such a geek!

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[»] Re: Various things....
by ac - Mar 3rd 2001 18:56:24

so why is www.seekingsin.com a 'dead end? what do your log files look like?


> Okay, I feel the need again to slap
> another
> comment on here.
>
> For those of you who say that I should
> stop my
> whining; Actually I'm not whining -
> I'm perfectly
> okay with people shunning me or not
> liking me
> because of what I do for a living. The
> article
> merely focuses on the point that
> 'porn' directly
> equates to 'go away, you sinner' (in a
> really
> generalised way that is).
>
> For those of you who said that I'm
> showing my age;
> maybe I am, but think about this - the
> average age
> of coders in the porn world is between
> 21 and 25.
> Some of the biggest porn peddling
> companies are
> run by 23 year olds. Some 18 year olds
> drive 2001
> Chevvy Corvette's around the block
> because they
> made damn fine money off of peddling
> porn.
>
> So maybe I'm showing my age, but maybe
> it's just
> the fact that the porn industry is in
> general
> comprised of younger people - so you
> immediately
> have the added bonus of something like
> a
> 'generation gap' to also deal with.
>
> Please note however, that I am in no
> way implying
> that everyone should like me - heck, I
> said it in
> the article, feel free to hate me, I
> dont't care
> :) Just try to see it from my point of
> view before
> you condemn me - that's after all, the
> respectable
> 'human' thing to do :)
>


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---

[»] Re: Various things....
by MadCat - Mar 3rd 2001 19:02:05


> so why is www.seekingsin.com a 'dead
> end? what do your log files look like?
Because seekingsin.com is still under development
:) And it's not my only site,
I have a lot more sites (I currently own 40
domains). The fact that it's my 'personal'
stuff also means that I only work on it when I
have time, or when I feel like it.
Most of the time I spend working on code for other
people :)





--
-- Bernhard van Staveren Wacky Perl Geek

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[»] Re: Various things....
by ac - Mar 3rd 2001 19:23:24


>
> % so why is www.seekingsin.com a
> 'dead
> % end? what do your log files look
> like?
>
>
> Because seekingsin.com is still under
> development
> :) And it's not my only site,
> I have a lot more sites (I currently
> own 40
> domains). The fact that it's my
> 'personal'
> stuff also means that I only work on
> it when I
> have time, or when I feel like it.
> Most of the time I spend working on
> code for other
> people :)
>
>
>
>
Cool, just wanna see what ya got goin' on (besides the dbi stuff here on freshmeat)

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[»] Laboring under a misconception
by Ben Kennedy - Mar 3rd 2001 17:31:38

You are wrong when you say "performance is king". Suppose you had worked for a child pornography site, which featured images of rape and abuse. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Would I want you on my programming team even if you were the best coder in the world? I would rather work with someone who did not tolerate and perpetuate the spread of child pornography, and many reasonable people would agree. Even if you were to claim "I'm only in it for the programming", you would still be guilty by passive association. If you are just arguing that "normal" pornography is just more acceptable than child pornography and therefore you should accepted into mainstream programming society, then you are just imposing your own moral standards on others.

[reply] [top]

[»] Re: Laboring under a misconception
by MadCat - Mar 3rd 2001 18:09:15


> You are wrong when you say
> "performance is king".
> Suppose you had worked for a child
> pornography site, which featured images
> of rape and abuse. Sounds horrible,
> doesn't it? Would I want you on my
> programming team even if you were the
> best coder in the world? I would rather
> work with someone who did not tolerate
> and perpetuate the spread of child
> pornography, and many reasonable people
> would agree. Even if you were to claim
> "I'm only in it for the
> programming", you would still be
> guilty by passive association. If you
> are just arguing that "normal"
> pornography is just more acceptable than
> child pornography and therefore you
> should accepted into mainstream
> programming society, then you are just
> imposing your own moral standards on
> others.
Your point is entirely based on the assumption
that I would have no problem working on a child
porn site, or any other coder for that matter. I
do. I won't go near it, and if I notice anyone
running a kiddie porn site, I'll do everything I
can to get them shut down. In case you haven't
noticed, most 'kiddie porn' sites that are out
there (sadly) exist on free hosts such as
geocities, or any adult free host that doesn't
police their sites well enough. They have no
high-tech stuff, they don't co-locate their own
servers, let alone hire coders to do coding. Why's
that you think? Because we 'the porn people' don't
like them either.

I think the hatred towards kiddie porners is a lot
higher in the adult industry than it is in the
'normal' world.

I am indeed claiming that pornography isn't a bad
thing (the normal variety at least) but I am not
imposing my moral views on others. I did say that,
in my opinion, I should be accepted in normal
society - I never said I am trying to force people
to see my point. I wrote this article to call it
to attention, and I wrote it to start an
intelligent discussion about the topic - if you
don't like porn, or the people that work in the
adult industry, hey that's perfectly fine with me
- you don't have to like me, all I ask is that you
think about a few of the things that I mentioned.
If you still don't like me, hey, that's fine, I
have no problems with that at all :)




--
-- Bernhard van Staveren Wacky Perl Geek

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---

[»] Re: Laboring under a misconception
by Ben Kennedy - Mar 4th 2001 11:15:57


> Your point is entirely based on the
> assumption
> that I would have no problem working
> on a child
> porn site, or any other coder for that
> matter. I
> do. I won't go near it, and if I
> notice anyone
> running a kiddie porn site, I'll do
> everything I
> can to get them shut down. In case you
> haven't
> noticed, most 'kiddie porn' sites that
> are out
> there (sadly) exist on free hosts such
> as
> geocities, or any adult free host that
> doesn't
> police their sites well enough. They
> have no
> high-tech stuff, they don't co-locate
> their own
> servers, let alone hire coders to do
> coding. Why's
> that you think? Because we 'the porn
> people' don't
> like them either. Actually, my entire point is based on the fact that you wouldn't work for child pornographers. Why wouldn't you work for them? Obviously because it's wrong by most people's moral standards. Why else wouldn't you work for them?
> I am indeed claiming that pornography
> isn't a bad
> thing (the normal variety at least)
> but I am not
> imposing my moral views on others. I
> did say that,
> in my opinion, I should be accepted in
> normal
> society - I never said I am trying to
> force people
> to see my point I don't think that this article tries to impose a moral view on pornography - but asking people to accept your presence in general society imposes a moral view on them to some degree. What if a child pornographer came up to you saying he wanted acceptance into general porn society? By tolerating him, you would be tolerating child pornography, which goes against your morals. Without speculating on the presence of absolute morals, you have simply drawn a line for yourself, and are treating some people (the kiddy porners) the same way as you claim to have been treated by general society. The only difference between you and society is the level of that line. This line is important and necessary, because if you found the acceptance and tolerance you were looking for in general society, you would have no justifaction for not working on kiddie porn sites.

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---

[»] Re: Laboring under a misconception
by Charles Hill - Mar 3rd 2001 18:34:13


> You are wrong when you say
> "performance is king".
> Suppose you had worked for a child
> pornography site, which featured images
> of rape and abuse. Sounds horrible,
> doesn't it? Would I want you on my
> programming team even if you were the
> best coder in the world? I would rather
> work with someone who did not tolerate
> and perpetuate the spread of child
> pornography, and many reasonable people
> would agree. Even if you were to claim
> "I'm only in it for the
> programming", you would still be
> guilty by passive association. If you
> are just arguing that "normal"
> pornography is just more acceptable than
> child pornography and therefore you
> should accepted into mainstream
> programming society, then you are just
> imposing your own moral standards on
> others.
Child porn, images of rape and abuse are illegal in the U.S. Pictures of consenting adults engaged in sexual acts (or just without clothes) are not.

One is criminal, one is not.

Your entire argument is based off of a hypothetical situation -- a supposition.

Assuming that because someone is tolerant of "x" does not mean that if you take it to the extreme, they will still be tolerant.

Your same argument could be made for everyone who has a glass of wine with dinner --> drunk drivers. Or someone who takes an aspirin for a headache --> herion addict.

The original author is no more imposing his moral view on others than you are on him (or others).

--
-chill

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---

[»] Re: Laboring under a misconception
by Ben Kennedy - Mar 3rd 2001 19:00:26


>
> Child porn, images of rape and abuse
> are illegal in the U.S. Pictures of
> consenting adults engaged in sexual acts
> (or just without clothes) are not.
>
> One is criminal, one is not.
>
> Your entire argument is based off of a
> hypothetical situation -- a
> supposition.
Legality is not an issue - it could be something completely legal, yet completely distasteful. I only mention child pornography because it is an obivous example that highlights the ability to draw a moral line. For some people, the line is before pornography, for some it is somewhere in the middle, for some it is after child pornography


> The original author is no more

> imposing his moral view on others than

> you are on him (or others).

I'm not taking any view on the stance of pornography, but I am saying that people have a right to not associate with people who they think are immoral.

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---

[»] Re: Laboring under a misconception
by Charles Hill - Mar 3rd 2001 20:36:38


>
> %
> % Child porn, images of rape and
> abuse
> % are illegal in the U.S. Pictures
> of
> % consenting adults engaged in sexual
> acts
> % (or just without clothes) are not.
> %
> % One is criminal, one is not.
> %
> % Your entire argument is based off of
> a
> % hypothetical situation -- a
> % supposition.
>
>
> Legality is not an issue - it could be
> something completely legal, yet
> completely distasteful. I only mention
> child pornography because it is an
> obivous example that highlights the
> ability to draw a moral line. For some
> people, the line is before pornography,
> for some it is somewhere in the middle,
> for some it is after child pornography
>
>
> % The original author is no more
> % imposing his moral view on others
> than
> % you are on him (or others).
>
>
> I'm not taking any view on the stance
> of pornography, but I am saying that
> people have a right to not associate
> with people who they think are immoral.
>
Okay, thanks for the clarification. Much better.


--
-chill

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---

[»] Re: Laboring under a misconception
by celthack - Mar 25th 2001 13:27:36

% ... Would I want you on my
> programming team even if you were the
> best coder in the world? I would rather
> work with someone who did not tolerate
> and perpetuate the spread of child
> pornography, and many reasonable people
> would agree. ... then you are just
> imposing your own moral standards on
> others. Sounds more like you are the one imposing standards. Unless I comply with all of you moral conceptions I am unfit to work with you. Alcohol consumption is much worse than porn. Porn is a "distorted" display of the most basic act of species survival. Alcohol kills, period. The mere act of consuming alcohol destroys brain cells (proven fact). I don't advocate banning alcohol or shunning alcohol companies and their employees. I enjoy a good drink now and then (although I should really abstain, coming genetically susceptible to alcoholism - whether the switch is on remains to be seen). Go on write your code for porn sites, I'll judge you based on how I percieve your morality, not on who you work for (unless of course you willingly work for the Dark Lord himself *vague reference to Evil Bill* ;)).





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[»] Re: Laboring under a misconception
by Ben Kennedy - Mar 26th 2001 17:06:22


> % ...